My all over the places choices: 2015 Mustang V6 Convertible,2013 Challenger R/T,2010 Camaro SS,2013 Focus ST, or 2017 Civic Hatchback

"LJ909" (lj909) 02/06/2017 at 17:03 • Filed to: None

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Yes I’m still shopping for a car and yes I know its quite a few choices but bare with me. I do extensive research when I buy cars and these are the ones I’ve narrowed it down too that I should be picking up before the end of the month. Here are my pros and cons. Other pros, cons and suggestions would be appreciated as well:

2015 Mustang Convertible V6 for $18,900 33,400 on the odo

Pros :

Stylish, especially with the standard HID’s and LED DRL’s.

Relatively fuel efficient for being a V6.

Plenty of power that bests or matches pre 5.0 GT’s of previous generations.

Its a convertible.

Surprisingly large trunk.

Cons :

Depreciation. Brand new and with the options that the example I’m looking at has, this thing was pushing 35 grand. In a little over 2 years with less than 50 thousand on the odo its lost $17 grand in value. That’s a big hit to me.

Not that this matters much but this car could have a stigma with it. Ford positioned the V6 as the base car so this thing is pretty much a poser rental special.

2013 Challenger R/T for $17,984 with 57,000 on the odo

Pros:

Its got a Hemi.

Being on the LX platform means it has sedan like interior room, even in back.

Its got the best styling (at least I think so)out of the pony cars.

Cons:

Its heavy, which could mean its thirsty.

Old school in the best and worse sense, mainly being good only in a straight line.

This is a 2013, before the recent refresh. Which means it has crappy interior quality that reminds me of my aunts 09 Avenger.

2011 Camaro SS for $16,980 with 75,515 on the odo

Pros:

6.2 liter Small Block means tons of relatively cheap performance options and tons of stock power.

This particular car has the RS package so its a looker.

Still holding on to its value even though its 6 years old.

Cons:

Its 6 years old.

Its like sitting in a bathtub with shit visibility.

GM’s hit or miss reliability.

2013 Focus ST for $15,585 with 69,000 on the odo

Pros:

One of the best if not the best hot hatch ever made.

Excellent power from its turbo 4.

The way it takes corners makes you forget its FWD.

Everyday livability and practicality.

The induction sound that’s piped into the interior makes a nice growl.

Growing aftermarket support.

Cons:

Its still a Focus before anything else, which hurts its value in the long run.

Mis mash of interior designs and angles makes it look confusing.

Torque steer will make you wish for the RS’ AWD system.

2017 Civic Hatchback for $22,800

Pros:

Its a brand new car.

Honda reliability.

Interior room equatable to an Accord of 3 generations ago.

Damn near 40 MPG with the CVT.

Pretty much guaranteed to hold its value pretty well.

The hatch’s styling is a looker.

Cons:

Dealers overcharge for them. MSRP’s for base LX hatches according to Honda is just over 19 grand. Most dealers I’ve inquired with are listing them within a few hundred bucks of a base Accord such as this example.

Has a CVT.

Cant find any Sport models with the Manual.

From certain angles its a bit over styled in some places.

ll these pros and cons come from me having test driven each model. What are you guys thoughts on these?

Racin'Jason001 > LJ909 02/06/2017 at 17:16

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I think you have gone about this wisely. I also feel that the Honda and Dodge aren’t for you (Honda: expensive, no manual; Dodge: not fuel efficient, bad interior).

LJ909 > Racin'Jason001 02/06/2017 at 17:18

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Was thinking the same thing. But the allure of a new car is tempting. But not for that money. Ive been trying to find one in my area under 20. No luck so far.

RyanFrew > Racin'Jason001 02/06/2017 at 17:18

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Personally, I think the Mustang is the move, here. How long are you going to keep the car? That depreciation strikes me as a good thing - means it’s a good time to buy and that you won’t lose too much value over time. None of these cars will actually hold onto the value in the long run.

Nerd-Vol > LJ909 02/06/2017 at 17:20

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I would go for the camaro. I like that it has a v8. Should handle a lot better than the dodge.

LJ909 > Nerd-Vol 02/06/2017 at 17:25

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Was thinking about it but its old (technically speaking). And the ones in my price range that are newer are just LT’s and the 17's are all 4 cylinders. I don’t know how I feel about driving a Camaro with a turbo 4.

Textured Soy Protein > LJ909 02/06/2017 at 17:26

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Random ideas, since you seem to be on the American/Asian cars:

BRZ/FR-S/86

WRX

Genesis Coupe

Veloster Turbo

Kia Forte5 SX (turbo)

Buick Regal GS

Ford Taurus SHO

InFierority Complex > LJ909 02/06/2017 at 17:32

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Is it any older than the Challenger?

LJ909 > Textured Soy Protein 02/06/2017 at 17:39

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Looked at all these. Like I mentioned I research cars extensively ever since that fuck up purchase of mine that was the S Type R. Here’s what I found with each of those you mentioned:

BRZ/86: I have a girlfriend and a son that ride with me sometimes. If the backseat in these things were big enough I could swing it. But rear seat legroom is non existent. I’ve read on some forums though that people with kids have them. I don’t know how.

WRX: Holding onto their values with a death grip, especially here in Southern California where I am because there’s a good scene here. Most used are either overpriced, have been driven and beat up hard but look nice on the outside but a head gasket is about to go or both. New and slightly used they are overpriced depending on where you look.

Genesis Coupe: Still kind of on the fence about these in a good way. Standard 2.0 turbo is gutless. The 3.8 is where its at and surprisingly the Genesis Coupe has a bit of an aftermarket here. However interior quality is crap and a lot of these are starting to show up driven hard.

Veloster Turbo: I love these. Prices are cheap as hell with a lot of low mileage ones. Every one I found was in excellent condition for under 15 grand and still under Hyundai’s warranty. The 3rd door adds a quirky practicality. The only thing is the handling isn’t that great, and this engine doesn’t really have an aftermarket. But you cant beat the value proposition here.

Kia Forte5 SX: Never really cared for the Forte so never really considered it.

Buick Regal GS: Still holding on to its value as well. I’ve found like 3 under 20 grand though. Only thing I have a problem with with these are how heavy they are.

Taurus SHO: Not cheap enough for me. I found one under 20 grand. It was a 10' with 80 thousand miles. I’m not sure how the Ecoboost holds up being that old. All the others hold their value and are in the high 20's and low 30's and at that point might as well go new. Also I hate how deceptive the Taurus is. How big it is on the outside doesn’t match its interior room.

LJ909 > InFierority Complex 02/06/2017 at 17:40

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If its the LT’s you’re referring to they are 14's and 15's.

Vicente Esteve > LJ909 02/06/2017 at 17:43

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GTI is my suggestion, dealers are giving great discounts and of course there is plaid.

Out of those I have to say the Camaro due to its V8, even if I am more of a Mustang guy.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > LJ909 02/06/2017 at 17:43

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Seems like you could find a used ‘15 Mustang GT with not-too-many miles for $24k. Too much?

LJ909 > Vicente Esteve 02/06/2017 at 17:45

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Yea but VW reliability though...though I don’t think I’ve ever know that to be an issue with the GTi. Unless its not talked about because GTi.

You have a point with the Camaro. But still, 6 year old car. I love the looks of the Mustang though.

LJ909 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/06/2017 at 17:51

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Yea little too much right now if I was able to find one for that cheap. Certain cars in Southern California are hot right now and the current gen of the GT is one of them along with all the other V8 pony cars. Within 100 mile radius of me the cheapest GT I could find is a 16' with 27 thousand on the odo for $27,613. Everything else that’s used is so overpriced you might as well go new. Doesn’t make sense.

Nothing > LJ909 02/06/2017 at 17:55

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My sister has a 2015 Mustang V6 Convertible “rental special”. She loves it and doesn’t regret it at all. She test drove an Ecoboost, and decided the V6 was enough for her.

If it was my cash, I’d go Mustang (first) or Camaro (second). I really love the looks of the Challenger, but pre-facelift, not so much. I’ve had the FoST. Liked it, didn’t love it, moved on. I wouldn’t consider the Civic, but that’s just for me personally.

Textured Soy Protein > LJ909 02/06/2017 at 17:57

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Veloster turbo engine upgrades:

http://damnfastdd.com/BrowseManufacturers/ShowProducts/Tork+Motorsports/Veloster+Turbo

Suspension:

http://www.tirerack.com/suspension/Susptabl.jsp?autoMake=Hyundai&autoModel=Veloster&autoYear=2015&autoModClar=Turbo+R-Spec

So there’s some stuff...

LJ909 > Nothing 02/06/2017 at 17:57

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You pretty much put how I’m feeling right now. I’ve been watching exhaust videos on YouTube for the Mustang and the 3.7 sounds good with the right exhaust. And you cant beat the looks and the fun in the sun convertible. I would pretty much have it down daily unless it rains. The Mustang is at the top of the list. I agree with your sis though. I test drove the Ecoboost too and it was... I don’t know it felt off in the Mustang.

What didn’t you love about the FoST if you don’t mind me asking?

Chariotoflove > LJ909 02/06/2017 at 17:58

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Of the choices you listed, I like the Mustang best. It’s got a little of everything: style, decent mpg, decent interior, price, a usable back seat, and that top for the SoCal life style. Only thing is, the V6 convertible won’t have much for options. It’s pretty basic, but if that doesn’t bother you, it’s a winner. Depreciation is only a problem if you plan to sell it in the near future. If you’re going to keep it, it’s a bargain.

SonnyQ > LJ909 02/06/2017 at 18:00

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I’ve heard insurance for the foST is off the charts due to the people that drive them.

LJ909 > Chariotoflove 02/06/2017 at 18:01

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Yea its hitting all of those. From what I’ve gathered its actually pretty usable as a daily driver. Like I said to the other guy living in SoCal I’m pretty much always going to have the top down unless it rains. But I plan to keep it for awhile if I get it. It is pretty basic though but the interior design of it and the options like the standard back up camera make it seem not so basic.

LJ909 > SonnyQ 02/06/2017 at 18:03

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Really? I wouldn’t have thought that. When it came out Ford liked to brag (I even think Jalopnik had an article or mentioned it) that ST buyers were of high median income, over $100 grand a year I think and were in their early to mid 30's.

Chariotoflove > LJ909 02/06/2017 at 18:04

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I should add that I’ve been looking at these myself. New, they cost way too much. You’ve just reminded me that depreciation is my friend. I’m the kind that buys a car and drives it until it dies.

LJ909 > Chariotoflove 02/06/2017 at 18:08

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Yea new the Mustang Convertible is about 33 almost 34 grand. And that’s for the “basic” V6. But used yea you cant beat the power, style and convertible for the money.

LJ909 > Textured Soy Protein 02/06/2017 at 18:11

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Thanks. Very basic though. I think because of the platform its limited. You cant do much with something that shares stuff with an Elantra.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > LJ909 02/06/2017 at 18:16

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Worth travelling for if you can save a few grand! But definitely don’t go over what you can afford. I think if I was you I’d go SS or ST. ST for me, but just because the Camaro’s styling doesn’t do it for me.

feather-throttle-not-hair > LJ909 02/06/2017 at 18:16

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If it were me, i’d go with the Chevy or the Focus ST.

If you get a V6 mustang convertible, you will always be the guy who wasn’t hard core enough for a V8. Don’t get me wrong, its a perfectly good car, and is plenty quick, but it would just bother me for the rest of time. The Camaro is actually fast in a way nothing else you listed is. If that matters to you, you should absolutely just get it and never look back.

If being actually seriously fast isn’t as big of a deal to you, i’d get the ST. It just ticks a bunch of boxes without really stumbling over anything. Personally, i’ve been DDing a 350Z for 11 years and the shit visibility/awful interior/lack of refinement does ware on you after a while. The pony cars are all going to have little niggles that get to you, while i’m guessing the Focus and the Civic will not, being designed for the masses and not idiot enthusiasts like you and me. But unlike the Civic, you’ll still feel like you have some car guy cred with the ST.

LJ909 > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/06/2017 at 18:20

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And the Camaro is 6 years old. It bugs me. I am really leaning towards the ST or the Stang though.

Vicente Esteve > LJ909 02/06/2017 at 18:33

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I think the 2.0 in the GTI is a reliable engine. Audi uses it in almost all its models and their reliability rankings are pretty high.

LJ909 > feather-throttle-not-hair 02/06/2017 at 18:35

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But unlike the Civic, you’ll still feel like you have some car guy cred with the ST.

This is how I kind of feel about the Mustang. Thing is though the Mustang can still run with the big boys because they got 300 horses out of it, something the old 4.6 just did make, albeit a little bit over. But I think I am going to choose between the ST and the Mustang. Both are pretty usable as a daily driver for what they are.

Nothing > LJ909 02/06/2017 at 18:58

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I bought the ST1, and I bought black. I’m not saying a fully optioned Tangerine Scream ST3 would’ve made me keep it longer, but I bet I may have. I had car envy of my wife’s loaded Grand Cherokee Overland.

When you buy the base model, you get the base model stuff, the tiny little LED screen, no heated seats, etc. It sounds petty, but I came out of a decently optioned Tundra, spent my $19,600 on the FoST (rebates...woo!) and drove it for a year. It was fun, my wife hated it. Neither of us could escape the economy car vibes in the interior.

I’ve always said, it I were to do it differently, I would’ve kept the FoST as a fun car to tinker on and sold my Miata for an old truck for Home Depot runs. I don’t regret what I have now, in fact I prefer the Tacoma and Cougar setup to, say, a 1992 F150/FoST setup.

Cost wise, the FoST was cheap. I’m 45 (was 42 when I had the FoST) with a clean driving record, so insurance was dirt cheap. I traded it in exactly one year after I bought it with only 4000 miles on it.

LJ909 > Nothing 02/06/2017 at 19:03

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Yea I’ve noticed that the interior of the base cars, outside of the Recaro’s and ST badge on the wheel are pretty basic Focus which isn’t that good. But damn you didn’t keep it long. I’ve seen that a lot though with both FiST and FoST owners: they tire of the cars fast and move on to something else.

feather-throttle-not-hair > LJ909 02/06/2017 at 19:19

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Yeah my thing with the mustang being a V6 and a vert is stupid and shallow, but it would bug me juuuust enough that I wouldn’t want it. However, that’s just me, you sound like a slightly more rational person. Objectively speaking, they’re good cars. Fast enough to feel fast and good enough handling to constantly remind you that you’re happy you didn’t buy a Camry.

I feel like i read that you have a kid and live in SoCal? That’s one point for the Mustang and one point for the Focus right there. I live in seattle so my view on convertibles is “no way” buuuuuuut i’ll admit that very little beats top down motoring on a sunny day. SoCal might be othe only place on earth i’d consider buying one, might as well take advantage. That said, my dad had a BMW 320i growing up and I remember HATING sitting in that back seat with it being cramped and having to wait until the adult in the front seat got out and pushed their seat forward before i could finally egress.

I guess the question is: How much of a little shit/beatiful little angel has your child been recently?

LJ909 > feather-throttle-not-hair 02/06/2017 at 19:44

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Yea its not all about image to me. Would I rather have a GT? Of course. But we live in an age where a base Mustang makes (or made with the 18' coming) 300 horsepower. That’s more than enough for me. Its a Mustang and a convertible. Whats not to love?

But yea I do have a kid and live in Socal. My son will be 6 on Thursday and he knows his cars. He wants me to buy a red Camaro but he loves all the pony cars. Knows them on sight. I think I would just have to bring him along to see how he fits back there. I’m coming from a Sonic hatch so the rear seat in the Stang cant be worse than that.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > LJ909 02/06/2017 at 20:23

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I’m 6' and 250ish pounds and fit in the back of an FRS with a car seat beside me. It’s no worse than a Camaro or Mustang.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > LJ909 02/06/2017 at 20:25

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The LS3 is pretty bulletproof, along with the manual transmission. If you can live with the rest of the car, I wouldn’t worry about the engine/trans.

LJ909 > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 02/06/2017 at 20:57

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You’re right. The measurements of the BRZ and Mustang are within an inch of each other rear seat wise. I don’t know why in pics the BRZ looks much smaller. It just gets to the point of justifying buying it to my gf.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > LJ909 02/06/2017 at 21:46

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My cousin got nearly 40mpg highway in his. While carting his wife, child, and all of the stuff that has to be drug along with said child on top of luggage for a week’s vacation. If you are space effecient, they are practical enough. I didn’t get one because of a couple of reasons: 1. The FiST is better out of the box. It doesn’t need extra power, it doesn’t need better tires, etc. That said, the 86's are a much better platform to mod on, but that’s not what I wanted. 2. I’ve known of more than a few people to get rid of their 86 for a FiST, but not the other way around. I don’t know why, but that’s what I’ve seen.

Miltiades490 > feather-throttle-not-hair 02/07/2017 at 20:23

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I just hate how bad the Camaro’s visibility is. I’m surprised a Mazda 3 isn’t somewhere on the list. That’s a practical DD that’s fun to drive, much like a Civic.

feather-throttle-not-hair > Miltiades490 02/07/2017 at 23:12

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Yeah, so many new cars have terrible visibility. My 350Z has the same problem, its awful. Also the Camaro is HUUUUGE. But so is the Challenger.

jordang1028 > LJ909 02/09/2017 at 03:19

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Be the cool dad with the V8 muscle car that your kid can tell his friends about! Life’s too short.